I went in as a journalist. I was in the Amazon and I was exploring ayahuasca culture. But what I also found was some Western gringos and many, many Westerners partaking of these plant sacraments.

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You look at the mysteries of Elysius and the Greeks and the “Soma” and things like that. And they’ve had to parallel to not upset the apple cart and to not challenge, you know, the dominator culture and the empires of the day and the power structures.

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None of the indigenous medicine people around the world call themselves “shamans” as the Westerners do, because Westerners have had a void or a disconnect from the mythic archetype of the medicine person and the healer has been reduced to doctor in some levels. We split it up just like we have this distance between the mind-body-spirit or this denial of spirit in essence itself, this dichotomy that’s developed in the West over the last few hundred years.

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So we’re shielding ourselves from nature and what nature really is, which is, you know, this alive and intelligent macro creature, this organism. And nature extends into the web of life and beyond the planetary envelope.

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A freewheeling conversation with James Oroc, Rak Razam and Leo Bondani in Venice Beach, 2016 in which they discuss the 5-MeO-DMT experience, the differences between lower and full release doses, practitioners and their styles and the potential of forming a guild of ethical practitioners to raise the standards of 5-MeO work.

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Consciousness is the driver. And so, you know, if an attachment can open either way or stand or change the path that we’re unfolding onto, it’s very good. You know, many people over generations now I guess, have used psychedelics both recreationally and as a work, as a spiritual practice, and you know, both have developed functions to them. But it really does help.

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